I am wondering how many out there will be picking up a set of Zocchi precision GameScience dice now that more games (Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG and Sorcery & Super Science! to name a couple) are being designed to specifically use them? I believe it is a fun design decision to include Zocchi dice (d3, d5, d7, d14, d16, d24) in the mechanics of a game, but I wonder how popular this will be and will it turn potential players off of a game because they will ultimately have to spend a few extra dollars buying more dice? And before anyone brings it up, I realize there are ways around using actual Zocchi dice, but it is my opinion that eventually this might get tedious and a real set will eventually be desired. Please take a moment and cast your vote.
17 comments:
It's almost impossible for me to get hold of these Zocchi dice in the UK, at least at any reasonable price, so a game that insists on my using them is going to be a non-starter, unless they produce a boxed set and stick a set of the dice in there.
One poll question not included is that using a LOT of dice will confuse new players. We take it for granted that we will be able to identify the d5 or d7 but think about the people who have trouble telling a d8 from a d10? They will have twice as many dice to learn to recognize!
Also, you can get away with some die-surrogacy, as in using 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 on d6 as 1, 2, 3 to simulate a d3. While it's quite possible to use nothing but a d8, d12, and d20, it's a real pain and the other dice are cool and easier to use than a conversion. If the game called for using Zocchi dice I'd totally lay down a few extra bucks for them, absolutely worth it, but I don't know that I'd encourage that game.
Think 7+/-2. We already have d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20 (6). A "tens place" percentile and a d30 are becoming more common. We're right in the sweet spot, and doubling the number of dice may just make things a bit too complicated.
Maybe that's a bit of old fogey in me talking.
I signed up to play a DCC RPG demo @ Garycon next month. I'll probably see how impressed I am with the game before I worry too much about it.
Zocchi dice? Never heard of 'em. But I'm not buying a whole new set of dice to generate weird numerical ranges when I already have lots that generate different weird numerical ranges. I had no idea you needed these for DCC, but needing these dice to play it kills the deal for me. Is there any reason at all for 'Zocchi' dice, except for the sake of making different dice? What the hell was wrong with traditional polyhedra?
I bought a set. You cannot emulate the uneven distribution of the d7 with other dice, it has a character of it's own.
I would not be likely to play a game requiring use of Zocchi dice as part of the core mechanics. I might get the game and strip out the Zocchi-using parts, though.
As for why - I have a bunch of dice already. I am pretty happy with the ones I have. If I want more of a given type, I can pick them up at the local game store. I can't get Zocchi dice at the local game store.
It just strikes me as an irritating novelty if I'm honest.
From Designer's Blog #1: What It Is, And What It Isn't posted for DCC RPG:
"It primarily uses the conventional dice suite: d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, and d20. Most combat and spell checks are resolved with a d20 roll.
It also utilizes Zocchi dice. All of them. Including the d5, d7 and d24."
Personally, I dig odd dice mechanics. The One-Roll Engine is a great example of this. If these dice are implemented into a system and they feel like they belong there then I will have no problem with it. If it feels forced or gimmicky then that is another matter all together.
I have a full set of Zocchi dice on the way right now simply because I have something of a dice sickness, and I felt compelled to pickup a set. I will be a happy camper if I can find a game that uses them and does so in style.
I have no interest in picking up Zocchi dice. I'm not even interesting in "regular" Gamescience dice. Dice are a tool to facilitate the game; they're not an interesting or fun thing in their own right.
I don't think I can be bothered. I have enough games to keep me busy for several years now, and the dice to go with them!
Personally, I think a lot of designers have proven since the advent of D&D that you can create fully functional games with only one die type, including the traditional 6-sider.
Cost is not really a concern for me, though. If the mechanics truly kick ass, I'd give it a try. But it does look to me like Goodman are going for a gimmicky approach in part due to their ties with Zocchi. If they're just cramming those dice types in their mechanics, I'm not really interested.
I would say this game is now off my radar and it will take some pretty impressive reviews for me to regain interest.
"I have no interest in picking up Zocchi dice. I'm not even interesting in "regular" Gamescience dice. Dice are a tool to facilitate the game; they're not an interesting or fun thing in their own right." - Joshua
I think the dice contribute something. I'm running a game right now that uses just d6 and d20, and I use a d8 for certain specific things like random direction, and we use percentile dice for dividing treasure (we could get away with using d20 though). I think the game loses a little of its feeling when you take away the other cool dice.
That said, I don't know if you add much by adding the Zocchi dice. I'd have to actually play with them.
Personally, I find it annoying and am seriously put-off by it to the point that I may very well choose not to buy or play any game that uses them. It's clearly a ploy to sell unusual dice, rather than a desperate need for those number ranges in the rules.
Now, perhaps the games are designed well to make good use of those ranges, but I'm sure they could just as easily have been designed well using standard RPG dice, too. I'm a little bothered that DCC is doing this, because aside from the dice issue it seems like an interesting game... one I will probably PASS on because of the dice requirement.
Seriously... some of my players have enough trouble finding the right dice with standard D&D. I'd prefer less funky dice to more! The simpler the game can be the better, assuming playability and depth doesn't suffer (and it need not suffer, if the game designers are clever.)
1d30: "I think the dice contribute something. I'm running a game right now that uses just d6 and d20, and I use a d8 for certain specific things like random direction, and we use percentile dice for dividing treasure (we could get away with using d20 though). I think the game loses a little of its feeling when you take away the other cool dice. "
I don't disagree; I just don't think that there's any huge need for more dice. Currently, other than hit points, I don't roll anything other than d6 and d20 either. I guess my point is that I don't really value dice for their own sake very much. I think that they're great tools, and the standard 7-dice set (or several, in my case) is pretty nifty to have. But when I'm playing, I don't, say, get excited about the prospect of using a d12.
Oh man when I'm playing AD&D I do get excited by a d12 :P It's just such a cool die! Plus it rolls funny, sometimes far longer than you think it should. D4s, while a less exciting number range for say HP or damage, are still really cool looking and roll differently from the others. Plus new players will look at the table and what do they see? Some might be intrigued by all those funny dice. I know two players so far who used to play and just started up again with my game, what they remember most from their prior D&D experience was the cool dice.
I admit, I don't see much difference between 1d6+1 and 1d8. I could care less about the fact that you'll never see 1 HP or 8 HP with the first die. I would say it's close enough to be equivalent, so an AD&D longsword might as well do 1d6+1. But rolling a d8 instead of a d6 feels fundamentally different to me despite intellectually knowing it isn't.
It's all just vague though, and the difficulties of die identification and the small cost of buying and storing more dice kind of couter it for me. So I'm on the fence but hanging off the side of "no Zocchi."
I won't buy a set just to play a specific game...because I already have a couple sets of them. Because of the big price difference between the 7-piece and 12-piece sets, however, I don't always buy the 12-piece.
I also have Fudge dice.
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